who erased the file?
- Thread starter AmShak
- Start date
CoruscantCosta
Ewok Cheif
dooku
Buzz Bumble
Furry Ewok
Dooku is the obvious candidate, especially when you see this ...
On a related topic, I've just finished read the UK Star Wars magazine (Jan/Feb 2003) which has a review of the Bounty Hunter console game and it says:
On a related topic, I've just finished read the UK Star Wars magazine (Jan/Feb 2003) which has a review of the Bounty Hunter console game and it says:
I'm not sure if this is what the game says, or just what the reviewer said, but it seems to indicate that Dooku or Sidious is Sifo-Dyas. :spin:
Dooku is the obvious choice, which might make one think that is the reason it isn't him.
One theory I read has Anakin erasing the file under the guidance of Palpatine/Sidious.
Another has Yoda doing it... I don't recall the reasoning behind this one.
The most recent is that Mace is the traitor. The idea being that whomever did it has to be a major player and not just one of the background Jedi. Lucas says that he wanted to keep the loyalties of Dooku secret until the end of the movie and still those loyalties could be questioned. What if mace was following Dooku's story on trying to create a better republic not knowing that he had any relationship with Sidious? There is no specific dialogue to quote that would help this theory along but just in case you need another reason to watch the movie, watch it again with this in mind.
When they meet at the beginning in Palpatine's office, they all get up to greet Amidala, except mace who sits there rubbing his chin pondering something. At first I thought that maybe mace had detected the dark side in Palpatine and was trying to organize those thoughts. With this theory, what if this is just part of a struggle that mace his having with himself over the right and wrong of what he has been doing with Dooku.
When Palpatine suggests that the Jedi protect Amidala, Yoda gives Palpatine that look, like he suspects something while mace is quick to agree.
When obi-wan expresses his concerns about Anakin to Yoda and mace, Yoda seems to agree with obi-wan until mace speaks up and reminds them of the prophecy.
Mace suggests that they reveal their weakness to the senate, which makes no sense, and Yoda is quick to let him know this.
Mace is strong with the force, but to sneak up on Dooku and Jango at the arena seems like quite a task, since Dooku is probably more powerful than mace. Also, Dooku does not seem surprised by mace's appearance.
After Jango goes after mace and mace takes Jango's head off, mace gives Dooku a look, possibly a look of betrayal?
Why does mace not go after Dooku while other Jedi do?
I'm not saying that I think this is what is really going on, but I think you'll find it interesting if you watch the movie again with all of this in mind. I think it would be a bad move for Lucas to have mace end up being a bad guy, but what if he had been struggling with what he was doing with Dooku was right or wrong and the arena battle is mace's revelation and puts him back on the "good" path. Let's also not forget that the fighting style of mace is borderline "dark side" style. Apparently on the strongest of Jedi can use this style w/o turning to the dark side. Perhaps mace's thoughts are in this gray area.
Let us not forget what Yoda says... "Do not assume anything, clear your mind must be if you are to discover the real villians behind this plot"
One theory I read has Anakin erasing the file under the guidance of Palpatine/Sidious.
Another has Yoda doing it... I don't recall the reasoning behind this one.
The most recent is that Mace is the traitor. The idea being that whomever did it has to be a major player and not just one of the background Jedi. Lucas says that he wanted to keep the loyalties of Dooku secret until the end of the movie and still those loyalties could be questioned. What if mace was following Dooku's story on trying to create a better republic not knowing that he had any relationship with Sidious? There is no specific dialogue to quote that would help this theory along but just in case you need another reason to watch the movie, watch it again with this in mind.
When they meet at the beginning in Palpatine's office, they all get up to greet Amidala, except mace who sits there rubbing his chin pondering something. At first I thought that maybe mace had detected the dark side in Palpatine and was trying to organize those thoughts. With this theory, what if this is just part of a struggle that mace his having with himself over the right and wrong of what he has been doing with Dooku.
When Palpatine suggests that the Jedi protect Amidala, Yoda gives Palpatine that look, like he suspects something while mace is quick to agree.
When obi-wan expresses his concerns about Anakin to Yoda and mace, Yoda seems to agree with obi-wan until mace speaks up and reminds them of the prophecy.
Mace suggests that they reveal their weakness to the senate, which makes no sense, and Yoda is quick to let him know this.
Mace is strong with the force, but to sneak up on Dooku and Jango at the arena seems like quite a task, since Dooku is probably more powerful than mace. Also, Dooku does not seem surprised by mace's appearance.
After Jango goes after mace and mace takes Jango's head off, mace gives Dooku a look, possibly a look of betrayal?
Why does mace not go after Dooku while other Jedi do?
I'm not saying that I think this is what is really going on, but I think you'll find it interesting if you watch the movie again with all of this in mind. I think it would be a bad move for Lucas to have mace end up being a bad guy, but what if he had been struggling with what he was doing with Dooku was right or wrong and the arena battle is mace's revelation and puts him back on the "good" path. Let's also not forget that the fighting style of mace is borderline "dark side" style. Apparently on the strongest of Jedi can use this style w/o turning to the dark side. Perhaps mace's thoughts are in this gray area.
Let us not forget what Yoda says... "Do not assume anything, clear your mind must be if you are to discover the real villians behind this plot"
If dooku deleted the file, then he would have done it quite some time before obi-wan discovered that it was missing. This is possible, however I think that Sidious is Sifo-Dyas. I can't remember if the Kaminos say that Sifo-Dyas visited them to arrange for the clone army or if that was done on behalf of Sifo-Dyas by another person. A reason to watch again, again.
I don't think Anakin, at this point in the story, would have done something like that on behalf of Palpatine.
I can't think of a reason why Yoda would remove the file and then act like he didn't know about it later.
Mace is an interesting choice. He really hasn't done much in the movies so it would elevate his character quite a bit if it ends up that he assisted Sidious at some point in the story.
I don't think Anakin, at this point in the story, would have done something like that on behalf of Palpatine.
I can't think of a reason why Yoda would remove the file and then act like he didn't know about it later.
Mace is an interesting choice. He really hasn't done much in the movies so it would elevate his character quite a bit if it ends up that he assisted Sidious at some point in the story.
cplfreezer
Mind Bender
I think it is Dooku but, i hope it is Dooku's apprentice Qui-Gon.
It would be cool.
Yoda > Dooku > Qui-Gon > Obi-Wan> Anakin>
:guns:
It would be cool.
Yoda > Dooku > Qui-Gon > Obi-Wan> Anakin>
:guns:
I would like to see qui-gon get tied in more to all of this and i think he will but i think it's more interesting to me (at least at the moment) that mace did it. I think they have to be careful how they handle that because i don't think it would be a good idea to have mace end up being a bad guy.
chris solo
Agent
Dooku and Sidious didn't seem to surprised and were content when the Clone army showed up.
Barada
Saboteur
I'm not sure who erased the file, but as far as Sifo-Dyas is, it almost certainly WON'T be Sidious or Dooku as far as I'm concerned.
When Lama Su asks Obi-Wan about Sifo-Dyas being a leading member of the Jedi Council, Obi-Wan looks surprised and says that he had died about 10 years earlier. That puts it right around or just after Phantom Menace. Sidious was certainly never a part of the Jedi Council, and I don't believe Dooku was either. Qui-Gon would be a good choice, since he died in the right time frame, but he wasn't a leading member of the Council either. Therefore, you would think that it has to be one of the Jedi seen in the Council in Phantom Menace that wasn't there in Clones. Who is missing? Yaddle, Yarael Poof, Adi Gallia, and the other short, one-eyed Jedi (was that Even Piel or something like that?)
My guess is Poof. Lucas says he took the character out because he looked too much like Kaminoans and wanted to avoid confusion. Maybe there's more to this than Lucas is saying? Maybe Poof's race is related to the Kaminoans, and therefore he is aware of their existence, and suggests that they be used to build the Clone army? Then he erases the file to keep it secret, and dies shortly after.
The bottom line, while Sidious or Dooku would be an obvious choice, it has to be someone who died the decade previous.
Barada
When Lama Su asks Obi-Wan about Sifo-Dyas being a leading member of the Jedi Council, Obi-Wan looks surprised and says that he had died about 10 years earlier. That puts it right around or just after Phantom Menace. Sidious was certainly never a part of the Jedi Council, and I don't believe Dooku was either. Qui-Gon would be a good choice, since he died in the right time frame, but he wasn't a leading member of the Council either. Therefore, you would think that it has to be one of the Jedi seen in the Council in Phantom Menace that wasn't there in Clones. Who is missing? Yaddle, Yarael Poof, Adi Gallia, and the other short, one-eyed Jedi (was that Even Piel or something like that?)
My guess is Poof. Lucas says he took the character out because he looked too much like Kaminoans and wanted to avoid confusion. Maybe there's more to this than Lucas is saying? Maybe Poof's race is related to the Kaminoans, and therefore he is aware of their existence, and suggests that they be used to build the Clone army? Then he erases the file to keep it secret, and dies shortly after.
The bottom line, while Sidious or Dooku would be an obvious choice, it has to be someone who died the decade previous.
Barada
chris solo
Agent
As Barada said Poof. Why would Lucas say he took him out because he looked too much like the Kaminoans. All he had to do was make the Kaminoans look different because they didn't appear until AOTC.
CloneCommanderBry
New Recruit
Obviously it was Jorg Sacul that erased the file!
Buzz Bumble
Furry Ewok
Not really. Whoever visited the Kamino Clone Makers SAID they were (or were there on behalf of) Sifo-Dyas, but they weren't necessarily Sifo-Dyas. Dooku could have visited them just before/after Sifo-Dyas died (possibly by Dooku's hand) and used the name as a disguise.
Many Jedi serve on the Council, a couple are permanent (Yoda and Mace) while others are only there for only a short duration. Dooku could have been on the Council for only a short time, even just before he left the Jedi Order.
According to the Episode II Visual Dictionary, Dooku studied records in the Jedi Archives to build his curved lightsaber and was alos whispered ot be experimenting with Sith teachings using a dark Holocron kept in the Archives, so he would seem to have known his way around the Archives and been a fairly common sight there.
Barada
Saboteur
Sifo-Dyas is still not Dooku, Buzz, since he is alive, and Obi-Wan informs Lama Su that Sifo was dead.
However, you raise an interesting point about stolen identity. It is entirely plausible, but do you really think that in a two and a half hour movie, Lucas can go this route, and explain it neatly? I suppose he might, but it's a swerve that would take too much screen time to explain to the casual fan, and would end up being more confusing than the Padme/Amidala identity mess for first-time Phantom Menace viewers.
Also, I really think it'll be someone that has already been introduced, so it won't be a rotating Council member that we never saw before. Just my opinion, and no one will know until Episode III comes out, but I'm sticking with what I said earlier (of course, Mace may yet turn out to have a hand in this too, but he won't be Sifo either).
Barada
However, you raise an interesting point about stolen identity. It is entirely plausible, but do you really think that in a two and a half hour movie, Lucas can go this route, and explain it neatly? I suppose he might, but it's a swerve that would take too much screen time to explain to the casual fan, and would end up being more confusing than the Padme/Amidala identity mess for first-time Phantom Menace viewers.
Also, I really think it'll be someone that has already been introduced, so it won't be a rotating Council member that we never saw before. Just my opinion, and no one will know until Episode III comes out, but I'm sticking with what I said earlier (of course, Mace may yet turn out to have a hand in this too, but he won't be Sifo either).
Barada
Buzz Bumble
Furry Ewok
The "who is / was Sifo-Dyas" mystery may never be explained in the movies. Unless it turns out to be a major player like Dooku, Mace, etc. (either in person or hijacking Sifo-Dyas' identity), it's more likely to be left for the EU novels / comics to cover.
Barada
Saboteur
I don't disagree with your thinking, Buzz, but I just think if that's the way it goes, it'll be kind of a letdown. I think one of the bigger mysteries being asked by the fans is exactly who is Sifo? To be left for EU, which has nowhere near the audience of the films themselves, isn't very smart IMO.
Barada
Barada
Buzz Bumble
Furry Ewok
Ah, but that's where LOTS of people get confused.
George Lucas' Star Wars movie saga is the story of Anakin Skywalker - his rise, fall and redemption as a Jedi. The "sideline" stories of the Empire, Emperor, Luke, Boba Fett, etc. are not as important to that, so unless Sifo-Dyas is one of the main players (and possibly even if he is), there's no reason to explain it on-screen since it's not really anything to do with Anakin, just part of the back-story. The rest of the Star Wars universe is explored and explained in the EU novels, comics, games, TV shows, etc., etc.
It's pretty likely that real Sifo-Dyas' story will appear as part of one of the novels / comic series, just like "what happened to Boba Fett before / after Episode II" and "Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan".
This is also why the Clone Wars aren't happening on-screen in the movies either. We see the first battle in Episode II and (reportedly) the last battle in Episode III, but the rest is left to the computer games and "Samurai Anakin" in the rathr silly three minute short cartoons - unfortunately.
George Lucas' Star Wars movie saga is the story of Anakin Skywalker - his rise, fall and redemption as a Jedi. The "sideline" stories of the Empire, Emperor, Luke, Boba Fett, etc. are not as important to that, so unless Sifo-Dyas is one of the main players (and possibly even if he is), there's no reason to explain it on-screen since it's not really anything to do with Anakin, just part of the back-story. The rest of the Star Wars universe is explored and explained in the EU novels, comics, games, TV shows, etc., etc.
It's pretty likely that real Sifo-Dyas' story will appear as part of one of the novels / comic series, just like "what happened to Boba Fett before / after Episode II" and "Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan".
This is also why the Clone Wars aren't happening on-screen in the movies either. We see the first battle in Episode II and (reportedly) the last battle in Episode III, but the rest is left to the computer games and "Samurai Anakin" in the rathr silly three minute short cartoons - unfortunately.
CoruscantCosta
Ewok Cheif
Oh. when i first saw ep2 i thought Yarael Poof was sifodyas.
I havent read much of this post......too lazy.
I havent read much of this post......too lazy.