Sarasotarockstr
I am the fool who follows
I see that Wattographs has ceased offering their address database to the public. Kind of a pissy post they threw up about it too in my opinion. Has anyone from Bothan heard from them?
Maybe this is old news - Wattographs RIP?
- Thread starter Sarasotarockstr
- Start date
Jedi_Joel
Agent
Well you gotta understand why it's a "pissy post" as you call it. They said they're fed up with people using it for their own gains and not contributing to it. I would be just as frustrated too, as I've had something similar happen to me.They also said they'll bring the database sometime later once they have better ways of tracking what people do. If you read the entire message, you'll see that you can still get access to the database.Sarasotarockstr said:
Sarasotarockstr
I am the fool who follows
No I saw that, read the whole thing. The main reason I posted is I felt the post was possibly directed at this community.
Look, I throw addresses on my site. Not a big list - just if I have a success, here's where I wrote.
That being said, no one on The Bothan Spy (which honestly is the site I figured he was fingering as I can't think of another site on the net - aside from Star Archive - that has more SW addresses than this) ever claimed to do the research and personally bring to the world the addresses.
I could be wrong as I'm not the admin of wattographs, but I'm guessing more folks head to the wattographs address lists to see which ones have had recent successes than to just get addresses. So it seemed heavy handed to essentially cut off that community interaction (aside from their forums) because he felt he wasn't getting ad money. IMO maybe he should charge less for autographs and he'd make a few more $$.
I write to people using addys from here, from Watto, from Star Archive, google groups, etc. I think most others do as well. I guess I look at it as the good of the community and the hobby and not "how much money am I losing in ad revenue". Just my $.02 and opinion, and we all know what people say about opinions....
Look, I throw addresses on my site. Not a big list - just if I have a success, here's where I wrote.
That being said, no one on The Bothan Spy (which honestly is the site I figured he was fingering as I can't think of another site on the net - aside from Star Archive - that has more SW addresses than this) ever claimed to do the research and personally bring to the world the addresses.
I could be wrong as I'm not the admin of wattographs, but I'm guessing more folks head to the wattographs address lists to see which ones have had recent successes than to just get addresses. So it seemed heavy handed to essentially cut off that community interaction (aside from their forums) because he felt he wasn't getting ad money. IMO maybe he should charge less for autographs and he'd make a few more $$.
I write to people using addys from here, from Watto, from Star Archive, google groups, etc. I think most others do as well. I guess I look at it as the good of the community and the hobby and not "how much money am I losing in ad revenue". Just my $.02 and opinion, and we all know what people say about opinions....
Barada
Saboteur
Well, the frustrating thing for me is that I am trying to see what is being said about it in their forums - it's likely people will specify sites in there that the webmaster wouldn't mention on the main page.
However, even though I tried to register twice, using two different emails, the 'activation link' they send to the email address reistered came up as a dead link in both of my email accounts, whether I just clicked it or copied and pasted it into my browser. The site's up, and the forums seem to work, as trying to access them reroutes me to the need to login. Could this be a purposeful block of TBS staff? Anyone else able to access their forums that's staff here?
Either way, the wording of that message may not directly mean us, but what is said in there can certainly be made to look like it does. To be honest, I'm not even sure if darthskellington uses them to obtain his addresses. I wasn't aware that this information was copywrited by them anyway, as a mailing address is not exactly 'their' own information. Sounds like someone is upset that they're not the only game in town that supplies this info, and is throwing a tantrum...
Barada
However, even though I tried to register twice, using two different emails, the 'activation link' they send to the email address reistered came up as a dead link in both of my email accounts, whether I just clicked it or copied and pasted it into my browser. The site's up, and the forums seem to work, as trying to access them reroutes me to the need to login. Could this be a purposeful block of TBS staff? Anyone else able to access their forums that's staff here?
Either way, the wording of that message may not directly mean us, but what is said in there can certainly be made to look like it does. To be honest, I'm not even sure if darthskellington uses them to obtain his addresses. I wasn't aware that this information was copywrited by them anyway, as a mailing address is not exactly 'their' own information. Sounds like someone is upset that they're not the only game in town that supplies this info, and is throwing a tantrum...
Barada
Jedi_Joel
Agent
From what I've read on the forums, I never saw anything mentioned about getting enough money or ad money, infact, I don't recall any ads on the database. Also in the forums it was mentioned that the shutting down of the database was only temporary till they can track what people do there.Sarasotarockstr said:
I don't know, they seem pretty reasonable to me, and I've always been happy with what I've gotten back. Just out of curiousity, how much do you think it should be?
Jedi_Joel said:
i don't know about him, but at first glance, i would say they are certainly on the high end. $40 for Prowse? that's a pretty good mark up considering he is $25 at shows and he does a ton of those... meaning he's not that hard to get. maybe i'm not seeing the entire picture, but i having trouble seeing why it would be that much. i would assume that they are doing a volume deal which means that they are not paying prowse $25 each time he signs his name, but even if they were, it seems too high. but...if people are willing to pay that, then i guess they can charge whatever they want.
IF that post on their site has anything to do with TBS, then i would say that they are not very smart and they are the ones who are screwing everyone who uses it. No one from wattographs has contacted us about any problems they might have with us. this should be the first action taken before you just cut everyone off. For this reason, i will assume that it has nothing to do with us.
if they want to charge people for using tehir site, then that's certainly something they could do. i see that they do have advertisers and it would appear that they make a nice profit from the autographs that they sell, which is fine.
we could charge people to look at our site if we wanted too. i doubt that many would and that's not why we do it. they don't own that information and it's too bad if they think they do.
skel would have to defend his position on this, but i don't think there is much if any connection between what he's doing and wattographs. i do not expect him to defend this and i kind of think what he is doing is only helping the community.
in fact, i take issue with their logic that people who take the info and not contribute screws everyone. that is not something you can control, even if you make it a pay site. it reminds me a lot of the rebelscum "collect to collect" policy. it's a policy that is convient for them.
i'll give you a little history on wattographs and TBS. when they first went up, they came to us and wanted us to post their news and post their banner. i asked for info on what it was they were doing and i never really got an answer. it seemed to me that they were running a site that was generating a profit which would land them more in the "sponsor" category, just wanting free advertising. we went ahead and posted their news and put their banner up and asked if they would place our banner on their site (that's how it works). they had no desire to put our banner up, so theirs came down. So, tell me how that helps EVERYONE?
with all of that said, i'm still going to assume that they have no issue with us until i hear from them. amshak@thebothanspy.com
Sarasotarockstr
I am the fool who follows
I'm not out to start a flame war. I just have a different point of view than Wattographs.
Mine seems to be closer to skel's vision of things. I started my site to help people new into the TTM hobby. It's 1/2 blog, 1/2 educational. I like to write, and so if in detailing my hobbying experiences I can help someone join me in it, awesome. Just in the last few days a guy emailed me thanking me that using an address I posted for Annette Funicello of all people, he got his first success. He's a huge fan of hers - it meant a lot to him. Happy to help.
As Amshak said, I've found most of Wattograph's prices to be higher than what I would consider "standard". I've had two people get me autos at convention prices, both of whom did so for about an extra $5. So if they're paying "con rate" aka full price, when Watto's does a signing at reduced signing rates, shouldn't it be less?
I'm all about free enterprise. He can charge whatever the heck he wants. I don't have to pay it. My comment about his pricing was more of a smart ass remark than anything.
If you run a "free" site, one that is about community and not profit, then don't ***** that no one is paying for it. As much as I love this site, it'd be hard to argue that Wattographs isn't the largest database on the net dedicated to SW addresses. But when you deal in information, how can you not expect that info to get out? If it isn't copyright, it's public domain.
Mine seems to be closer to skel's vision of things. I started my site to help people new into the TTM hobby. It's 1/2 blog, 1/2 educational. I like to write, and so if in detailing my hobbying experiences I can help someone join me in it, awesome. Just in the last few days a guy emailed me thanking me that using an address I posted for Annette Funicello of all people, he got his first success. He's a huge fan of hers - it meant a lot to him. Happy to help.
As Amshak said, I've found most of Wattograph's prices to be higher than what I would consider "standard". I've had two people get me autos at convention prices, both of whom did so for about an extra $5. So if they're paying "con rate" aka full price, when Watto's does a signing at reduced signing rates, shouldn't it be less?
I'm all about free enterprise. He can charge whatever the heck he wants. I don't have to pay it. My comment about his pricing was more of a smart ass remark than anything.
If you run a "free" site, one that is about community and not profit, then don't ***** that no one is paying for it. As much as I love this site, it'd be hard to argue that Wattographs isn't the largest database on the net dedicated to SW addresses. But when you deal in information, how can you not expect that info to get out? If it isn't copyright, it's public domain.
darthskellington
Dark Lord of the Typos
I've been a registred member of Wattographs for about 7 years now, give or take. (Or whenever they started registration). I've purchased from Gary Price and from the site before, with no problems. I personally use the WG site to double check addy's I write to, and I post any succesful results with them...and have done so for years. However, I'm not a prolific writer/requester.
I sent Gary an e-mail almost a month ago identifying myself, and explaining the projects we post here at the Spy. Since I do use the WG database to help verify addresses I get from Stararchive, I also asked for his opinion on the matter in relation to the current WG DB usage issue. I also asked for access to the DB for personal use, offering to discontinue use of the WG DB as a back-up verification tool if he so desired. At this time I have not received a response.
I am on perfectly good terms with Gary and Wattographs, and understand their frustration....at least with non-contributing usage of his DB...which I assume is the heart of the problem. I have no idea what Gary's opinion of TBS or myself is..which is why I asked.
Nothing has been directed at TBS. I obtain all the addresses from Stararchive or from actors websites, and use WG to double-check valid addresses. I can see how this touches close to the issue at hand though.
Regardless, Wattographs' opinion remains unknown at this point. I would hope they have no issue with my projects, but if they do, I'd be happy to listen and clear things up.
I sent Gary an e-mail almost a month ago identifying myself, and explaining the projects we post here at the Spy. Since I do use the WG database to help verify addresses I get from Stararchive, I also asked for his opinion on the matter in relation to the current WG DB usage issue. I also asked for access to the DB for personal use, offering to discontinue use of the WG DB as a back-up verification tool if he so desired. At this time I have not received a response.
I am on perfectly good terms with Gary and Wattographs, and understand their frustration....at least with non-contributing usage of his DB...which I assume is the heart of the problem. I have no idea what Gary's opinion of TBS or myself is..which is why I asked.
Nothing has been directed at TBS. I obtain all the addresses from Stararchive or from actors websites, and use WG to double-check valid addresses. I can see how this touches close to the issue at hand though.
Regardless, Wattographs' opinion remains unknown at this point. I would hope they have no issue with my projects, but if they do, I'd be happy to listen and clear things up.
darthskellington
Dark Lord of the Typos
Here is the e-mail I sent to Gary on 8/3/06, for the record:
Hi Gary,
I was going to post a success for Dennis Muren and see you have moved the database. Joel mentioned you might be doing this in the near future. If I could have access to the new location, I would appreciate it.
As you may or may not be aware, I have been posting autograph projects at The Bothan Spy. They are intended to be ready-made projects to help people get into collecting, or further the collections of those already into the game. They consist of a photo of the actor and/or character, a short biography of the person lsiting some of their career highlights, links to their imdb filmographies and homepages, and a hopefully valid address to which someone may send a request. I primarily obtain my addresses from Stararchive, but sometimes double-check results with any posted on Wattographs, particularly if little info is known about a signer. The underlying goal is to help out other collectors by taking some of th leg-work out of the autograph request research process, and hopefully making available hard to find addresses that would otherwise only be available from an expensive pay-site such as Stararchive.
I just wanted to be up front about this, since it is obviously close to the current issues at hand regarding database usage. If you have any concerns about this please feel free to discuss them with me. I hope you do not feel my efforts are a threat or a drain on your resources. If so, I have no problem with discontinuing my use of the Wattographs DB as a verification tool in my efforts. However, I would hope to still be able to contribute personal results information to Wattographs DB as I have the past several years.
Please let me know your thoughts when you ahve the time. Thanks,
Warren Jacobsen
darthskellington
Hi Gary,
I was going to post a success for Dennis Muren and see you have moved the database. Joel mentioned you might be doing this in the near future. If I could have access to the new location, I would appreciate it.
As you may or may not be aware, I have been posting autograph projects at The Bothan Spy. They are intended to be ready-made projects to help people get into collecting, or further the collections of those already into the game. They consist of a photo of the actor and/or character, a short biography of the person lsiting some of their career highlights, links to their imdb filmographies and homepages, and a hopefully valid address to which someone may send a request. I primarily obtain my addresses from Stararchive, but sometimes double-check results with any posted on Wattographs, particularly if little info is known about a signer. The underlying goal is to help out other collectors by taking some of th leg-work out of the autograph request research process, and hopefully making available hard to find addresses that would otherwise only be available from an expensive pay-site such as Stararchive.
I just wanted to be up front about this, since it is obviously close to the current issues at hand regarding database usage. If you have any concerns about this please feel free to discuss them with me. I hope you do not feel my efforts are a threat or a drain on your resources. If so, I have no problem with discontinuing my use of the Wattographs DB as a verification tool in my efforts. However, I would hope to still be able to contribute personal results information to Wattographs DB as I have the past several years.
Please let me know your thoughts when you ahve the time. Thanks,
Warren Jacobsen
darthskellington
Barada
Saboteur
If their hissy fit is indeed directed at our autograph section, then from what I see with Skel's email, he covered his end very well and did exactly the right thing.
I don't like blasting other sites - but I will defend this one above all others. If they have an issue with us, they should do the mature thing and contact someone in authority here. Of course, with what AmShak said about them asking us for a banner link and news posting, and then refusing to reciprocate after we helped to promote them, doing the 'mature' thing seems to be a challenge for at least one person over there.
What's next? Someone with an interview site going to throw a hissy fit over our recent interviews? Is grudge-match.com going to take issue with our Rancor Pit, because the formats are very similar? (They existed before us, but I had not heard of them until recently).
Seriously, we're talking about autographs here. It's not intellectual property that one can claim ownership to...
Barada
I don't like blasting other sites - but I will defend this one above all others. If they have an issue with us, they should do the mature thing and contact someone in authority here. Of course, with what AmShak said about them asking us for a banner link and news posting, and then refusing to reciprocate after we helped to promote them, doing the 'mature' thing seems to be a challenge for at least one person over there.
What's next? Someone with an interview site going to throw a hissy fit over our recent interviews? Is grudge-match.com going to take issue with our Rancor Pit, because the formats are very similar? (They existed before us, but I had not heard of them until recently).
Seriously, we're talking about autographs here. It's not intellectual property that one can claim ownership to...
Barada
Sarasotarockstr
I am the fool who follows
Well all I can say is - bumping into the punkasses from TBS @ Star Wars Weekends got me back into TTM Collecting a lot more than hitting Wattographs for addresses from time to time. ANY group of people that bake cookies for Rick are people I want to be associated with!
Looks like TBS did the good & proper thing by being up front and emailing them.
Back to collecting - I have a dozen return SASEs to get ready for tomorrow's mail...
Looks like TBS did the good & proper thing by being up front and emailing them.
Back to collecting - I have a dozen return SASEs to get ready for tomorrow's mail...
Barada
Saboteur
Well, I can remove any concerns about blocking people from registering. I just received this today.
I still have questions about who they're upset with, but I would like to stress that any suggestions I may have made concerning an inability to join their forums have been answered.
Barada
I still have questions about who they're upset with, but I would like to stress that any suggestions I may have made concerning an inability to join their forums have been answered.
Barada
Sarasotarockstr
I am the fool who follows
I got an email from Gary today. He did mention he has no issue with TBS. I consider this a moot subject at this point honestly. Again - never meant to start a flame war - was just asking an honest question.
Back to the envelopes - those stamps aren't going to attach themselves....
Back to the envelopes - those stamps aren't going to attach themselves....
Barada
Saboteur
Ok, so here's the next question.
What about new fans that are willing to contribute? Because they're new, they have no possibility of accessing a database that they could contribute to.
He's cutting off the future of his site, as people will eventually complete autographs and no one will have anything left to add.
Ian
What about new fans that are willing to contribute? Because they're new, they have no possibility of accessing a database that they could contribute to.
He's cutting off the future of his site, as people will eventually complete autographs and no one will have anything left to add.
Ian
Barada
Saboteur
Hey Joel,
No offence intended. I was replying directly to what Gary seems to have told Ryan. I know what has been said about public accessibility - but if quoted correctly, what he said seems to counter that intention.
I just want to see the right decisions made by everybody. As someone who doesn't seek out celebrities home addresses, I was hoping to give an impartial viewpoint on the comments made in this thread, aside from the first few posts where it seemed like there were issues with us.
Ian
No offence intended. I was replying directly to what Gary seems to have told Ryan. I know what has been said about public accessibility - but if quoted correctly, what he said seems to counter that intention.
I just want to see the right decisions made by everybody. As someone who doesn't seek out celebrities home addresses, I was hoping to give an impartial viewpoint on the comments made in this thread, aside from the first few posts where it seemed like there were issues with us.
Ian
Jedi_Joel
Agent
I'll lay things out so you'll hopefully get the big picture from what I've read.Barada said:
1. The Database is on lockdown
-Because it's on lockdown, only people who have contributed to can request
to get access.
-This is only temporary
2. A new and better database will come online later in the year where the general public will have access to it.
Well...
1. How the guys at wattographs want to run their site is their own business.
2. The things that the people at TBS are doing in regards to collecting autographs aren't exactly related to Wattographs. I don't really see a problem there.
3. It's unrealistic to expect a particular userbase to always give back to the site that they use. There are the "lurker types" and the contributors. You're probably not going to convert that many lurkers by trying to keep them out of your site. BUT, see #1.
4. I think we all now understand that what they're doing is temporary until they "fix" their system.
My take on it.
1. How the guys at wattographs want to run their site is their own business.
2. The things that the people at TBS are doing in regards to collecting autographs aren't exactly related to Wattographs. I don't really see a problem there.
3. It's unrealistic to expect a particular userbase to always give back to the site that they use. There are the "lurker types" and the contributors. You're probably not going to convert that many lurkers by trying to keep them out of your site. BUT, see #1.
4. I think we all now understand that what they're doing is temporary until they "fix" their system.
My take on it.